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Seriously Duncan
no one can argue with your commitment and the political fire that you´ve got burning, you know it´s not my point to critizise that in any sense -
BUT: This is not the site to manifest that! Especially not when you collage-paste pictures of riots along with pictures from easa-events. That really makes me mad (and diminishes the efforts you made in Roubaix)
Do you even realize what this means as far as a face to the public for Easa? The consequenses that it could have for the Easa in switzerland? the swiss crew and all their efforts with sponsors that take a look at our forum and wants no part of theses political standpoints? Don't make "the swiss" look like liers or hipocrites. Not to mention new easa participants who might get the wrong idea that there is a "right" and a "wrong" standpoint within easa.

As a well spread out network, a non-hierarchical system, we have only one common face and it happens to be this blog. Please don´t disregard one of our strongest functions - a free-zone from political and religious opression.

I know you want us to react and discuss with you, but
t h i s i s n o t t h e p l a c e for it.
It's not cause we don't care about these issues that we don't answer your callings, but (if i may speak for others than only myself..?) Let do that this summer, in groups when we´re all speaking as individuals and not as easians.


thank you and please understand where this is coming from.

alexandra - nc sweden
 
duncan, Sunday, 1. May 2005, 23:32
hi alexandra
i respect this blog and EASA, im openly communicating (be it mostly one way as i no longer get respnses to most architectural issues i bring up)my views on architecture, what stuff im involved in what for me is critical architectural thinking and action, so for me this is the place for it- europoes student forum for architecture.

theres a war going on in this world today, a war against the environment, a war against the developing nations of the world, a war against the minds and spirit of those in the "first" world. but people are fighting back through listening to each others stories, forming non violent networks of opposition, being creative and taking action to do things to effect positive change.
we hope more help

mayday; origins of, evolution, direct action on the street, media networks, views on society and where its going
gardening (earlier post without reply too); sustainability, urban food production, connecting with troubled neighbourhoods.
and other stuff..

im sorry it makes you mad, i can understand your view that nice sponsers viewing site and new easians viewing it, might get wrong impression- why is this, theres little ark discussion on site-
thanks for making point
i hope you understand my angle and the anger i have that it seems little of the easa network is willing to seriously look at the state of the world and from that do something about it.

my ark education took me to warzones and places of absolute poverty and death on the streets, im fighting that, im sorry if it upsets. this is the ark im part of.

yes, this is free zone from polit and rel opression, thats its strength- we are able to explore these issues, debate them, move foreward.

i dont think i will be at easa this year, i hope you do have a nice time
what can one do?
easa.antville.org

rimbaud, Monday, 2. May 2005, 01:45
so talking about i dont know what bad bad police forces beating the all so good peaceful demonstrators is ... ark talk .... i dont get that .... sorry ...

sure the topics u wanna address are important and sure as well more of the easaians are having a serious look at the state of the world and even are trying to do sth about it.

but to show off about it as u like to do from the heights of ur moralities is maybe not their way to "discuss" and communicate. to me u dont seem to wanna debate - u have the talent to kill any thread - even ur owns.

i respect the commitment to political issues - but do not mix 'em up with ark by pretending "all is ark" - it is not. all is art. all is politics. all is all. all is a soup mixed up??? if that is the way u see the world i am sorry for u cos' u wont be able to see nuances and distinctions.

i wouldnt mind discussing those matters with you in real life - but as alex said - this is not the place. by spamming this blog with off topics, u are badly serving ur cause discrediting it more than u "communicate" it. u shouldnt be surprised then that there is little hope to get response in the seldom cases u really address architecture.

as said before - i respect ur commitment and energy - i just wished u'd use it smarter.

u wont be at easa ... u should maybe think about retiring from this oh so unwilling and unlistening network online as well.
 
sennahoj, Monday, 2. May 2005, 00:48
blatantly citing others, and in the obvious attempt to show the lack of (intelligence of) formulating my own views upon any of duncan's remarks with something as obvious as unf-unf.de
i simply refer to en.wikipedia.org
and leave the discussion (again) with much more serious things to contemplate, like the sate of the average lava-based lifeform of whatever ..

long live Schnappi

duncan, Monday, 2. May 2005, 01:12
johanes, you accused me of trolling back here
easa.antville.org
without responding when i pointed out i had observed proper etiquette.
the fact that you might not feel my views are not architectural does not give you the right to speak on behalf of architecture and silence me and push me into little corner, which you previously did then.

im asking you to engage in the full discussion of what architecture is about, but it seems most easa are not interested in this as fun and fun alone is what counts.

and by the way, taking to the streets is a highly educational urban event
 
sennahoj, Monday, 2. May 2005, 01:19
but i hint at it , generously !
and by the f*cking way my name is Johannes ! i introduced you to EASA back in f*ckin 2001, not one of my glorious years in general, but since then, i learned your name and how to write it, something that you blatantly lack, since day 1.
i do not speak on behalf on architecture in the first place, as i would never dare to be THAT arrogant, anyway !
i, again, never pushed you into any corner, as you obviously hoped to gather your momentum from some corner anyway.

asking me by the way to engage on the full discussion of what architecute is about, means that that you ask me not to have any other hobbies, nor to concentrate onto anything else, for the rest of my life, and no-one can eventry to force me into that position!

again .. read the lines, not read into it, and please, for all future references.. leave me alone

(heres something for you .. i actually had to read my post again in regard to yours ( .. hey ,, you can really write that into your autobiography in years, or month to come .. .. ) that obvious disregard of your title in comparison to" Fun .. and fun is alone is what counts .."
thank you .. but that is enough for me to draw an end to this discussion )
 
adam cp, Monday, 2. May 2005, 12:37
I think it's about time we ban Duncan from this site. This may sound harsh, but it's the only tool webmasters have got to keep a site focused and on-topic.

I base my suggestion on the fact that Duncan has been asked to change his ways many, many times during the past 2 years. He has even said he would stop several times.
But as his latest posts show - not least his disrespectful answer to Alexandras well meaning and honest critique, purposely misunderstanding and twisting her words to fill us with more of his arrogant bullshit about how we should change the world and the sorry state of EASA-community - that he has no intentions of ever listening to our requests, that he don't give a fuck what the rest of the community thinks about anything.

Therefore, lets ban him. Perhaps to start with just for a month - and then one last final chance... but his actions and provocations need some concequence now. This is not to limit his freedom of speach - there are thousands of forums on the net for discussing exactly those subjects where he can go and perhaps even get some response to other things than his own person. It is simply to make sure this site remains a functioning forum for things related to EASA and Architecture.

Millions of people worldwide are taking action now. Lets take some action.

Adam

duncan, Monday, 2. May 2005, 15:14
lovely, thanks adam

all this stuff is architecture related
is it not?

mayday 2005- "whats going on in your country?"- sorry for asking EASA this question
easa.antville.org

music from ireland - sorry for sharing something i thought might interest EASA
easa.antville.org

greening the city- new community garden for dublin- sorry for informing EASA of my architectural thesis- "greening the city, connecting communities"
easa.antville.org
also asked for advice from easa on this project

Six Simple and Hard Questions About What Architects Do Today and Where Their Profession Might Go Tomorrow: And Your View Is ....
easa.antville.org
-sorry for attempting to generate ark discussion-
the argument that erupted there was forseen by me, hence the creation of the 2 threads, 1 for 6 answers, the other for discussion, debate, argument, whatever that arose from the answers.
you yourself said later "6 - I suggest we erase this embarassing thread and make a new one with just the 6 questions.", with this i observed net etiquette, something which Johannes (im sorry about earlier spelling)did not seem to agree with

alvar aalto was an anarchist
easa.antville.org
an open experimental project for learning about ark and social issues

another garden started in city
easa.antville.org
reporting to easa about what ark action we are engaged with here in dublin, again part of my architectural thesis

eko grad banja luka????
easa.antville.org
attempt to communicate with my friends from banja luka about how the city is progessing, has it gone toward an "eco city"


you say i go on about "arrogant bullshit about how we should change the world and the sorry state of EASA-community", so be it, if thats what it is to you. im doing my stuff here, im doing it in real world with people in my city, im telling easa community and im trying to get wisdom and support from them, instead i get no response bar this negative closed mind selfish shit from people like yourself.

your a nice bloke, i got to meet you briefly at easas and play some ball with you, it would have been nice if i could have switched off and spent all my time at play, but i had work to do, thats the way, thats the way i am, i cant help that

i hope above shows my ark intent, how it is wide and attempted to be 2 way
i hope easa remains open not like the ark forum www.irish-architecture.com (used to be www.archeire.com) in my own country where i have been banned
post about that and censorship:
groups.msn.com
it will be ironic though, as when i was banned it was over the issue of raising debate about the notion of eco cities and now that story has moved on a bit

so to finish
in denmark we looked at the idea of SUSTAINABILITY, what have we learned, what are we doing about it.
id like to hear what the rest of you are up to, ive asked....

adam cp, Monday, 2. May 2005, 16:50
Incredible. Can he not understand that it is not this little handful of relevant posts that is the problem. That it is all his endless posts about police brutality and other injustices in the world. And that all that crap completely overshadows his few constructive contributions.

Above he calls the criticism of his behaviour "negative closed mind selfish shit". This only shows his disregard for other peoples opinions and his inability to hear what is actually said. The only thing he listens too is his own prejudices.

I find it hilarious that he has already been banned from another architectural forum - I wonder why? I also wonder why he tells us this... so we can be sure he will never change his ways?!

We have been discussing the issue "Duncan" ever since I started coming to this forum 2 years ago. It's ridiculous, it's waisting our energy and it is taking away focus from other things.

It really have got to end. Please.

Adam
 
duncan, Monday, 2. May 2005, 19:12
adam, below is the quote i asked you had you read in lille, you said you had not and you will not, i hope you do, i hope you agree with Dr Capra.

"for the first time, we are witnessing the emergence of a "global civil society" represented by nongovernmental organizations, which are often active in several countries and communicate across borders.....whose vision is based on the respect of human dignity, the ethics of sustainability and an ecological view of the world"
that thread is here
easa.antville.org

i have tried to answer your above post here
easa.antville.org
the above links are my posts from most recent (at point of writing) backwards- most are not "endless posts about police brutality and other injustices in the world", most are about eco work here being done in ireland. i feel your call for my ban is unwarranted, i ask that you take back your request.

im sorry if my ark upsets you and some of the community, but i hope and expect that you can see that it is absolutely architecturaly related and therefor worthy of belonging in this communication space.

i hope to see you again and chat about all this as opposed to using this forum which i find difficult.

all the best
dunk

adam cp, Monday, 2. May 2005, 20:14
oh Jeez... even though it's been explained 110 times he still do not understand that it isn't his opinions about architecture that upsets us, it is the way he communicates it - in extremely big doses, mixed with walks for peace, Irish folkmusic, evil Bush, etc...

Is he stupid or is it on purpose?

Adam
 
duncan, Monday, 2. May 2005, 20:47
so your ok with the content, but would like me to change my method of communication
?
like posting this "ruthless hijack of our site to promote my very own weblog "
easa.antville.org

bottom line is i think: ive pissed people off, that has made me unpopular, people would prefer if i went quietly away.
no?

so be it, but ill continue on even though its not popular, used to that for years.

so i take it your still looking for my ban?

rimbaud, Monday, 2. May 2005, 23:02
this discussion is leading nowhere.

@dunk - never seen such stubborn and selectively perceiving person. u dont engage actual discussion, u just wanna raise polemics - as u demonstrate here. dont expect me to post anything else furthermore in reply to u [as u dont seem worthy replying to my posts]. this is not the place. write me by email if u want or show up with a beer for discussion in real life. but this is NOT the place.

@all others: banning might be difficult from a technical point of view - he will take another nick and go on. i think the best is to ignore his posts and post sth else that seems more fitting into this blog on top of his attention-eager posts without replying to them.
as u said adam - it is tiring and waste of energy and gives even more audience to him (mind the new record of 307 visits today - sad that it is for this discussion it seems). So let us please end it.

aLx_Be

adam cp, Monday, 2. May 2005, 23:21
Of course a banned person can always sign up with a different name, but it is like breaking back into someones house after you've been asked to leave - an extremely inappropriate thing to. His regular IP-adresses can also be blocked.

But Alex - as Duncan has promised to continue despite peoples many requests and demands for him to change or stop, we will keep getting the frontpage filled up with pictures of riot police, and we will keep getting meaningfull discussions interupted by meter-long comments with little or no relation to what we were talking about. And every now and then someone will be provoced by it and all this start over again. And over and over and over... as we have seen.

This is not a technical question, it's a question of principles - how much shit should you tolerate from someone, and how many pleads and warnings should you give to someone before there is some concequences?!



Adam

duncan, Monday, 2. May 2005, 23:34
adam, as stated previous, can you please look at list of previous posts above. they are not all riot police etc- did you look at list, 2 pix from mayday were of riot police as that is what happened today and this day last year, thats the ark stuff today.
last few weeks, months in fact there has been no "riot police" stuff as there was no ark action to do with that stuff, instead there was gardens and eco cities, without any response from you or many others from easa. some people like alex did participate in the forum and from that i learned about greenways and that is a major part of my thesis now, that is an example of how things can work.
last summer was political here as ireland had EU presidency, and my ark action took me to 2 events which were "riot police" things, therefor i posted them as that is what i was doing then. in fact i put up a brief summary of year, you can see how little is "riot police"
easa.antville.org

so as stated i do think you are being unfair, do you not think so? if not, look at those posts listed above.

and regarding those "meaningfull discussions interupted by meter-long comments with little or no relation to what we were talking about" can you please give me examples where this happened?
i remember 2 good discussions, one on materials and one about lots of things:
easa.antville.org

adam cp, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 00:03
If your recent posts proved me wrong we would not be having this discussion now, because then Alex would not have started this thread with a straightforward and polite request to you, and you would not have answered her back, ignoring her words, with a bucket of your regular speech that we've heard so many times before...
 
irka, Monday, 2. May 2005, 21:24
Duncan as cold Ireland rain, who refreshing our minds...

adam cp, Monday, 2. May 2005, 22:20
hi irka - I'm not sure who you are or what this picture is... but somehow it seems very appropriate.

Thank you for your cryptic comment to this ridiculous discussion.

Adam
 
duncan, Monday, 2. May 2005, 23:16
alex, alex, adam, Johannes, irka?
im sorry, maybe im stupid because i dont get it, i have been trying to engage, perhaps you could point out how i can "communicate" better?

i think i have tried ie, here
easa.antville.org

"we would like to know if there is similar projects in your towns and cities. if so perhaps you could give us their info, websites, adresses, photos..." re greening city
and as stated earlier in mayday post i did ask fellow easaians what was going on in their area
i dont see it as showing off, far from it, im trying (unsuccessfully) to engage with you

alex/rimbaud, perhaps i outlined a bit clearer my stance on the interrelationship between ark, art, politics, environment, life in previous post here
easa.antville.org

i do hope to meet up with you all sometime for a beer in a more relaxed atmosphere, things are stressed enough, with final thesis handup this day week

but i agree with you all, there are better things to be discussing than my inability to communicate clearly, it would be nice to get feedback from you about the greening the city stuff we are doing here

good luck to all with your work and struggles
dunk
 
jelkkruk, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 00:19
Jezus Christ. again this discussion?

duncan can't discuss, spell or understand things, he is not worth time of those intelligent people that spend their time discussing his smug behaviour, nor should he be left in state to polute the site any more.

i have been asking for a spam filter / duncan ban a few times before, and i fully support Adam: ban the guy. also his above statement does not mean anything, probably he continues his behaviour and than we need the same discussion again. And it continues over and over again, as last years have been proven.

if it is technically impossible to ban him, just delete every post he makes. i think also posts with simmilar intents from other people should be deleted. it is time we get some policy here!

Webmasters: stop refraining from action, this is the responsibility you have!!

greetings

Jelk NL
 
alexandra_swe, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 11:30
i´d like to put an end to this endlessness. Duncan, you know in your heart how and what you´ve been writing in the past and present. You also know the consquenses it gets. Lets end this discussion now. THE END
take care
alexandra

adam cp, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 12:59
Dear Alexandra, sorry for carrying on. But this will not end for that simple reason that Duncan doesn't care a thing for what you, or anybody else, ever told and asked him about his behaviour.

His actions here has nothing to do with the EASA -community. He is simply abusing our forum to get an audience to his important political statements. And as long as this site exists, and as long as we tolerate his behavior, he will keep posting his shit here, even if he lost all other connection to EASA.

Many people think we should just ignore him. But that is not eneough for two reasons:
1 - There are many people coming by here, strangers, sponsers, students we don't know. And they don't know Dunc and don't know they should just ignore him.

2 - He can be ignored by all of the people most of the time, and most of the people all of the time - but he can't be ignored by all of the people all of the time.
As your own initial post show, every now and then he will manage to provoke someone to write something to him, and this discussion start over again and again and again...

We really need to do something and since it is obvious that he does not listen to our requests, he has said so explicitely himself, the only tools we have is to try and ban him.

Adam

jelkkruk, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 16:53
I agree fully.
 
redjade, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 16:15
I am not a member of this online community, I just joined to make a comment - so my 'vote' should not be counted, as such. Its your community so its your decision.

I've known Dunk for a while and he is a good guy. He thinks outside of the box. Perhaps he's 'easy to feel but difficult to describe' - as EASA describes itself.

Hey may be a bit frustrating at times but he's from the heart and creatively pulls in ideas and issues together like few people I know.

In the Dublin Ireland activist scene he has introduced people to the ideas and issues of architecture in society in ways that no one else has. I never considered architecture as a political issue before I met Dunk.

Dunk has brought EASA ideas and issues to Irish activism - and Dunk is bringing Irish activism to EASA. That's the mix that Dunk, I think, is trying to achieve.

Perhaps he could do it better, but I think he's on to a good thing and should be supported.

jd
 
seoidin, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 17:27
Hello to you all
I am also not a member of this online community but have signed up in order to write this in support of Duncan.
I am a visual artist who works and lives in Dublin. I have spent most of my life in Africa. I grew up in Kitwe, Zambia and then lived in Durban South Africa. From my life experience i can say that every action and decision is political. The issues that Duncan raises in his threads though Local, and Irish/Dublin based have a great relevance to poor and disadvantaged communities in Africa. The way wealthy nations choose to live, eat, consume and build has an impact on Poorer countries. Duncan is the first creative individual that i have met in Dublin that is pushing the discussion of what art/ architecture is out of the box. I think he will be a loss to your online community if banned. There are very few architects that work or think about the relationship between nature, politics, community and life. . . .Duncan is doing this. Most architects/ artists are simply interested in there ego image and profit making. I have been brought to your website through Duncan. So i wish to thank him for that and long may he continue to push boundries.
seoidin

adam cp, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 18:42
Hello redjade and seoidin - welcome to the blog

I understand your reasons for stepping out and defending a friend. But we have also known Duncan for a long time, many of us considers or has considered him a friend. We already know that Duncan has some good qualities and we agree that it is important issues he is concerned about.

The problem is his arrogant way of bringing this forward. His many very, very long posts about things only marginally, at best, related to Arch or EASA, with which he clogs up our frontpage and our discussions.
He is full of ignorant disregard for other peoples opinions and the fact that they might be concerned about and work with the same issues as him, even though they haven't read Fridtjof Capra or joined a "social forum".

Should we just accept this?

We have discussed him, not his political views, not the issues he is bringing forward, for such long time, many times. Nobody here takes him seriously anymore. And he's only got himself to blame for that.

He has never been able to understand that it is not the content he is bringing forward, it is the way and the amount, that has become intolerable.

He has disregarded all polite and honest requests for him to change this behaviour.

Should we not react then? Should we not take action?

Adam
 
frederik, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 18:42
This is supposed to be a happy occasion.. :)

Some of us might be able to remember the correct spelling of all the names (in one way or another) important to them: inter-relational-cultural-lingual-or-whatever. Some of us are less blessed, and getting angry at those for that reason, is even more irrelevant, in this discussion, than most of Duncan's postings in general. It seems more an excuse to just get more angry - understandable in these frustrating times, but still not approvable.

A bit straightforward, but yes Dunc, this is not the place of most of your postings. And for the ones that are: despite what your local fanclub might claim, you could be raising interesting subjects but you just dont bring it in the right way. I repeat that: "you dont bring it in the right way". And without that even the most interesting idea could end up looking worthless. I wrote you an email about this which im not going to repeat here.

And to keep this bloggy-place from now on somewhat cleaner and more civilized (more and more frustrated "fuck"s in all its variaties are starting to appear), interested people can always subscribe to a mailing list to join fun, peaceful and sustainable discussions with local host duncan&friends at still-to-be-named-and-under-construction-ahem-mailinglist.

To end my input: Duncan, maybe you should hire Seoidin as your PR-manager, so you just tell all your brilliant ideas to him and he then can communicate them with the rest of the world. In his short note (in your defense, lol) he made for me a whole lot clearer what you are doing in this world than you could convince me of - despite the endless, posts, discussions, monologues and the loads of pictures - since i met you in Denmark 2003.


Jeezz weezzz, baby pleazzze, let me take you to an island with a sweet cold breezzze...

I wish you all relaxing times,
Freefrik NC.b

adam cp, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 18:57
So, Frederik, what do you suggest we do?

jelkkruk, Tuesday, 3. May 2005, 20:18
It is sad duncan pushes his non easa "friends" to come to this blog to "defend" him. This need proves that duncan has lost all the credits in the easa community. Other than those non EASA people I have read 0 posts that were encouraging duncan to continue his behaviour and oh so many polite requests to be a little more polite. I find it strange that this community is even thinking about tolerating someone who is behaving as uncivilized as the person we are discussing here. If those "friends" of duncan are really his friends they should point him to his uncivilized behaviour instead of preaching about how good a guy he is. We have seen his rubbish poluting our website too many times. We have read enough of his swearing and provocations. make an end on this soap, ban him.
 
frederik, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 02:21
You have to understand first of all that im more active on this blog only since EASA Roubaix, which means i havent read the whole 2 year online-forum-battle-and-bashing (i dont know how it started and i think - like for most fights - nobody can remember the exact facts). Also the threads since EASA004 concerning this matter, i havent read all, because seeming so useless and most of all uninteresting (im not only talking about Duncan's postings here). And im not planning to do it now either: it would take valuable days and what would it contribute to this world anyway.

Now, I never did disagree on the fact that Duncan posts unapropriate subjects or uses the less-subtle-more-radical (and therefore provocative for others - how many those others are, is unknown) language to letting hear his voice. I told him that in a mail, on which he replied in a polite and civilized way... AND with understanding. Its important to realize at all times - not possible but whatever - that everyone has a life outside this blog which influences what we write on it and how we write it. This is not an excuse, but part of an explanation.

What i also noticed though is that on those "not-done" postings of Duncan some people reply in the same way/manner that they blame duncan for. Irrelevant, abusive, provocative, ... If indeed everybody else would be clear of sins and Duncan the only bad guy in this story, there wouldnt be a story at all.

The next thing is that, because of his reputation, Duncan gets way less credit than other people when posting something. Especially when being off-topic. A prejudice has raisen, which not only he is to blame for, but also the several stories going around ("i dont know Duncan, but i heard that...). Spiral going down.. and the way up is much harder and longer.

I talked now with Duncan, we'll see what happens. Im hoping - for his and your calmness of mind - but im awaiting. As im awaiting our promises as well. When will we stop to reply on his posts on this blog? Whats the point really? Are we expecting cheers and "YAYs" when we scored a good argument. Most of the time everybody is discussing here 1 to 1 with Duncan, next to each other, not together. So why cant this be done by mail & clear this virtual space of all rubbish: Duncan's and ours.

Eventually, there is one thing we can do is, as alexandra already asked in a polite way (above), to stop this bickering here and now. Banning to me seems like oppression. It would be the easiest way for some of us - because as ever the greater part of this (virtual) world stands by careless - but it would lead to more boiling frustration.

Thus, if anyone wants to discuss with me about my opinion: you can all mail me at frederikdesmedt@yahoo.es with yours input. Or if you prefer discussing by MSN, over the phone or with a beer, i will be happy to give all you interested folk the necessary by that same mail: phonenumber, MSNaddress, name and addresses of good bars in BarCeloNa, whatever...

And then to Jelk, i will talk more personally about this. Just because this is not the place.

And to Johannes (i'll leave you alone, if you want ;) ) and Adam: send me your personal mail if you like.. Just because furthermore this is not the place.



Remember: im not trying to preach here, im trying not to favour anybody, and especially im not trying to wash my hands in innocence..



Awaiting your mails with great anticipation. Anyone that wants to keep being involved in this discussion will be added to the CC-list. Start making reservations! :)


Still with a happy face and a smile,
Freefrik NC.b

jelkkruk, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 04:00
Sorry frederik, this is not a matter of better understanding. Your suggestions that duncan is a victim of other people is unaccaptable. He has been warned over the last years many many times, and during time reactions on his posts become more and more intense. Myself, no matter duncan's insulting and aggresive way of posting, I for a while even tried to discuss with him, even online as I hoped it could lead to interesting discussions. But duncan is not interested in discussing. He is in desperate need for attention.

Anyway those discussions about rules of conduct should be held in public, here online, as they will finally hopefully lead to policy, as the webmasters did not take any responsibility in that so far. We need the discussion here in order to make up our mind if we need to accept rubbish on our weblog or not. If we democratically accept that we want rubbish on our site in some kind of policy, I will accept, and others might do the same. If we do not develop a policy on that it will imply that as long as duncan (or anybody else) is free to post his rubbish, those discussions will come into being. This is not a jelk vs duncan battle as duncan likes to pretend, this is an attitude problem of duncan. Several people (mostly NC's) started a topic concerning duncan's behavior disorder. Your suggestions about how bad he has been received by people is only an achievement of himself. As you should know people like Alexandra, Adam, Alex, Dubi, Jim and Johannes are not easily made mad. Your irish friend is doing the wrong thing and he should face it.

rules of conduct should be developped and executed. duncan should be banned.

Jelk NL
 
frederik, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 16:00
[start quote] Your suggestions that duncan is a victim of other people is unaccaptable. [end quote]
<< dont twist my words here :)

[start quote] Anyway those discussions about rules of conduct should be held in public, here online, as they will finally hopefully lead to policy, as the webmasters did not take any responsibility in that so far. [end quote]
<< true. policy, now! you cant ban some1 if there aint policy. If there is policy the offender (offensive, provocative, disturbing, ... posts or abusive language) should get a second chance (warning), if he doesnt adapt his behaviour to rules: temporary ban (1 month, whatever). If he after that still goes on or tries to get in with different name: ban for life.
Once there will be a policy (hopehope) you cant ban a person on his behaviour of during the time there wasnt a policy though. Because he simply didnt break any rules, as there werent any rules to be broken.

[start quote] Several people (mostly NC's) started a topic concerning duncan's behavior disorder. Your suggestions about how bad he has been received by people is only an achievement of himself. [end quote]
<< I know that. He's bad at communicating his thoughts, which offends people, myself included at times. I dont want to put the fault to the other people, but the "bad talks" exists. I think duncan has good qualities as well, but maybe i dont know him, you all know him better, im wrong and naive..

[start quote] As you should know people like Alexandra, Adam, Alex, Dubi, Jim and Johannes are not easily made mad. [end quote]
<< Cant disagree :)

[start quote] Your irish friend [end quote]
<< Dont even try to go this way

[start quote] rules of conduct should be developped and executed. duncan should be banned. [end quote]
<< see above


Lets get some rules of conduct going (Johannes or Marko? - or still want to be left alone?).
Freefrik NC.b

adam cp, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 16:49
Cool Frederik

You are pretty right on target in everything here :)

See below

duncan, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 17:16
hello
just a few quick words...

loveplatz discussion @ berlin 2001


samogar art gallery @ sangria night c/o lithuanian mad hatters 2002


silent art installation "she weeps" @ lille 2004

i first came into contact with EASA through my irish friend gemma (stumbled upon easa boat @ belgium, was at easa hrvtska, incm bornholm) then invited by Johannes to berlin. it has been a pleasure to be part of easa, it has helped define my view of what architecture is along with having a great time with some lovely people, so thanks.

im involved with a lot of different things, most of which for me are architectural (many of you have different views of what constitutes architecture, for me it is many things and i spend most of my energy working in the real world for improved quality of life for people through my architectural actions, both through ark design and physical actions/ activism, i see no boundary between)
Sometimes i have felt frustrated being part of different architectural groups/ institutions/ communities/ jobs as i feel that there is little or no concern for the deeper issues of what architecture is for or what it can achieve. this frustration has, at times, turned to anger toward these groups for their, in my view which it seems is very biased, apparant lack of concern for issues i feel strongly about: environmental sustainability in its fullest sense and global justice. so at times i have communicated with and to these groups in very agressive ways, for this i am sorry as it has had the result of pushing people away.

so as jelk states "for sickness you need a cure", id encourage you to go the next step which is to find out the reasons for the "sickness", i say this with quite a full knowledge of "illness", knowing friends who have gone through hard times; attempted suicides, suffer from depression, schizophrenia etc...its not pretty.

so from initial piece i hope i have outlined what it is that has driven me to act the way i have. again jelk feels i am calling out for attention, i am. but not as he sees it, i dont do this for me or my ego (im sure many will challenge this), i do it for the issues i am trying to raise.
i remember back in bornholm when i gave the FUSPEY lecture one evening and it was jelk who was playing the little trick of blocking out the name of my then website, oraiste.com. i wondered why he did this and i have my own ideas as to why he did. there i was throwing out a few ideas i was working on to the easa community in attempt to widen the discussion we were having prior to easa 03 "sustainability"
after this there was a SESAM in banja luka, bosnia, we tried to make an eco city- this was a fantastic experiment, for me this is the real agenda we have to work toward as architects, if there is to be any hope for sustaining life for our species: the development of eco cities. i was frustrated at this time due to what i percieved as a lack of support for the bosnian initiave from easa.

it was at that easa INCM in bornholm where mr. albatros (jerome) first shared his vision for easa @ lille, i remember it very well, jost, himself and myself having a fantastic livley discussion about how great it would be; architects going back to the city and attempting to really engage with the people again- la conditionn publique happened and i dont think we, easa, did really do enough to try to positively affect the community we were part of for a very short while. there were problems, there were challenges, thats what ark is about, on the whole i dont think we tried to make that a shared utopia, instead i felt that we stayed "inside" the safety and walls of la CP, to make our own utopia for us alone. some did go out, some did engage, some beautiful things did happen, im not sure if there is yet full feedback on that experiment.

again it is odd. there will always be personality and culture clashes (not always but in our lifetime anyway, and im afraid jelk and myself have never really hit it off.
in terms of making things relevant, i remember having a discussion with the danish easa organisers about the relevance of making a hovercraft at a "sustainable" event. anyway the point i was getting at was this- about the, sometimes, difficult dynamic of human interaction. first or second night @ lille gerald and jelk passed a "little arab kid" on the stret, some interaction happened with the result of a stone being thrown at the lads, this was told to me by gerald. later the football tournament (a regular easa occurance in "safe" locations) was postponed due to trouble with the kids, a few of us tried to resolve the conflict, which we did, the games went on, we made friends with those "trouble kids" and succeeded in bringing them into la CP where together we started a workshop; "the roubaix tapestry". the cp chefs said that was precisely what that EASA was supposed to be about, engaging with the local community, getting them to use la CP, later myself and jelk had another incident which resulted in that special piece being destroyed and me getting quite sick through sheer exhaustion, frustration, anger all rolled into one.

and lastly in response to jelk, it seems our argument has revolved about the idea that i have put my ideas before the crowd and you have been picking holes in them, as obviously i dont have all the ansers. i have tried telling you what i was about and what i was trying to do, i asked you to tell me about what you are for and what you do to affect positive change, i never heard much from you about what your for.
our last interaction seemed to be @

"write something interesting" you said.
- greening the city i said, i dident hear from you after that
i heard from some easa people and that helped me, id better get back to it now, thesis up soon

by the way, i never push my friends, i told some about this situation and asked them for support as it has upset me.

in regard to my poor communication skills in this communication space, it was brought up before and i concsiously did attempt to soften my approach, make more things easa and ark related. in a previous discussion on this theme flo (25. March 2005) stated: "i think everybody has asked duncan to change his postings, and the change is very visible (not only in this posting)."
as stated later, the fact that most of my last posts were about our "greening the city" project here in dublin, which i cant see how anyone can deny is architectural, in which i was asking the community for their views and assistance as happened earlier in terms of the "greenway" discussion

i tried answering this and the unfair argument made by adam supported by his edited choice of images i uploaded to site, the reasons for the "double-post" re the 6 questions, my reporting to the easa community what ark action im invovled in in attempt to generate discussion with my fellow EASAians earlier but i got no response, so im posting it in this thread to conclude these few words:


__________________________________________________________

architecture is a political act (2. May 2005)


This years mayday RTS is passing off smootly in dublin.

The posting of this article has caused offence to some in EASA, so much so that a call for my ban from EASA community has been made. The reason is for "all his endless posts about police brutality and other injustices in the world" despite nearly all my last posts being around the idea of "greening the city, connnecting communities" which involves the idea of trying to make dublin an eco-city and work done here in dublin in opening up 2 new community gardens in the dolphins barn area. So i feel it is an unwarranted request and hope that EASA will not push me out of the community that i have got a huge amount of things from.

some might argue that the content of this post is not architectural, i would argue that it gets to the core of what architecture and urbanism is for- ideally for the creation of healthy spaces for healthy communities to exist in.

the idea of reclaiming space in cities has come as a reaction of the killing of people friendly zones to give way for further carzones.

the act of reclaiming a street for a temporary length of time and using it in a celebrational autonomous way is a hugely educational tool in how cities can function.


ideas of ownership, control, challenge, shifts in use in the urban context are a massive area of understanding how cities function.

for those trying to work for a healthier more sustainable environment it is a means to demonstrate what they are for, as opposed to just moaning about too many cars.

for many people the formal political system has become so beurocratic that it is not fulfilling expectations on healthy city change, with that people can and are taking it on themselves to get up and do something to make a point, and this idea is echoed both from bottom up and top down (see www.indymedia.ie )

events such as RTS are another great networking tools and also, and perhaps most importantly, they are social events to meet up, relax a bit, have a bit of fun.

next point- this RTS was called by DISSENT-Éire who are part of the international DISSENT body organising for demonstrations against the G8 this summer. many people are concerned about the poorer developing parts of the world and feel that the existing trade rules are having the result of maintaining and infact increasing global poverty along with the unneccessary deaths of millions each year. many global groups are against these unfair trade rules; religious, trade union, socialist, anarchist....
should architects attempt to have a global vision?
should the flows of global trade, people, communication be considered when dealing with architecture in todays context, for many yes, for some no; architecture is about making buildings and thats all.

lastly the feast of Mayday was celebrated as one of the major feast days in the old celtic calendar, bealtaine. back in a time when people lived and worked in according with the seasons. in todays world many feel we have stopped working with mother nature, perhaps we could try to bring about a rebalance.

so they are a few thoughts which i feel justify my stance.

RTS photos
www.indymedia.ie

DISSENT-ÉIRE
www.dissenteire.tk

car free day- 20. August 2003
easa.antville.org

global civil society - how things can be in the future- new communication - 8. May 2004
easa.antville.org
___________________________________________________

Ban - 2. May 2005
"I think it's about time we ban Duncan from this site" adam
easa.antville.org

previous call for censorship
"Delete the trash of the irish lunatic"- jelk 29. May 2004
easa.antville.org

first time a form of censorship happened with article being hidden from frontpage and topic "architecture?" being gotten rid of:
6 Questions, many answers: discussion - 21. March 2005,
easa.antville.org

im aware that architecture is many things to many people, i ask that we engage with all forms and interests in architecture.
for some like myself it does have a strong political connection, EASA 04 was supposed to be "a political experience" (link above), was it?
i dont think a ban is fair or warranted, i think further discussion would be helpful for us young architects.

attempts were made for more feedback post EASA04
communication and consensus- any french feedback?- 3 years?
easa.antville.org

and after all this talk building buildings does come into it, the first major building i got to design is being built: a hostel for dublin homeless women, some of which are heroin addicts


internal perspective of main court with art wall

"buddha says hello"


building in construction stage



i could not have designed it to the level i did without all the "outside" aspects i had learned from my education.
and it does have to do with politics- who builds, who lives there, what rules are in place, how can people progress, how can people feel a sense of connection and ownership of a space, how do you deal with issues of depression, suicide, attempted murder.........

all this reminds me of a quote from gandhi "those that say that politics has nothing to do with religion, dont know what religion is about"

adam cp, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 19:02
"just a few quick words..." - Duncan what is going on inside your head? You have just posted what corresponds to 5 full pages of text (times new roman, size 12), 8 pages with pictures, 10.253 characters without spaces!

This is a message board. A weblog. You've even made it as comment to a post in the middle of a discussion! Do you really expect people to read all this?

You must be either a) a bit stupid, b) mentally a bit ill or c) purposely provoking us even more.

I'm beginning to suspect it's a combination of all three, but whatever it is - you are one of the WORST communicators I've ever met.

Adam

jelkkruk, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 07:01
@ duncan: not to mention you false suggestions of misbehaviour of other people. You crawl in self pity and selfcelebration. The label pathological liar would apply to you very well.

for example:

- what is this with this oraiste website? please tell in details including length of the joke in seconds. 2? 3?
- there was no interaction with the french guy, there was just a rock thrown
- there was no continuing socker tournament. or tell me who won the finals?
- if lowering the volume of your distorted radio results in the destruction of your workshop result and you being "quite sick through sheer exhaustion, frustration, anger all rolled into one" as u state it yourself, you need a doctor.
- if adam posting an illustration of your misbehaviour by showing your images is unfair, you need a second doctor.

Jelk
 
adam cp, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 16:45
Hej Frederik
I've thougth a lot about your suggestion today. And I'm sorry - I don't think we should carry on through email.

Duncan has promised to change SEVERAL times before. Obviously he has a very short memory and I don't know why we should belive a new agreement with him now.

This discussion is a concequence of Duncans postings here, therefore I think we should take the discussion here. If people accept Duncans behaviour, they accept also this bullshit.

This is about how the EASA-community can work and that is what this forum is for. Decisions about this should take place in the open.

Also, a decision needs to involve our webmasters, Johannes and Marko, who are making this website possible. They are both sick and tired of Duncan and this. I don't blame them. But they have to get involved, because they will have to carry out any decission.

If you think banning is an oppressive act, you do not understand what an internet forum like this is or how it works.
Try fx and have a look at the rules of this apple/mac forum:

forums.macrumors.com

I think you will find that all serious forums on the net have something similar.

Everybody from the community who've spoken in this debate have agreed that Duncans postings are inappropriate, but only Dubi, Jelk and I have dared to take the concequence of this and asked for him to be banned. This is quite frustrating to me, but it seems I'll have to live with that.



I therefore suggest that we postpone any dicissions untill EASA. There we should have a little conference to create some simple rules of behavior (like the ones in the link) and plan the future of this site.

What do you all think?

Adam

duncan, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 19:23
adam, in resonse to your post

my last post was an attempt to clearly present my view on this matter after thoughtful reflection, its long as i had to outline the different strands, sorry not everything can be summed up in 1 paragraph.
so please do me the favour of reading just that and then answer me,
tak
dunk

frederik, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 00:13
it cld have been way shorter :)
 
frederik, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 18:55
Ok, im NOT the one going to OBLIGE others to discuss this outside the forum. Just a SUGGESTION. So no need for a sorry there :) This is also evolving more in a discussion about the future of the forum and how it should be managed (more than a discussion about who called who what and when and blabla), on which all should be able to have their saying.

I dont know, im just guessing here (as i havent seen the whole 2-year-history of this "debate" and i dont know duncan that well and profound), but maybe duncan hasnt a short memory, but rather a short temper and is easily aggrevated. Blinded by overpassion and frustration he offends people time after time without realizing himself at first. Then in the discussion desperatly trying to hang on to his point of view and blocking out any form of critics.

.Is this a good thing Duncan seems to be doing over and over again [as you tell me Adam] and should we keep our patience with forever till death do us part?
No, it is not a good thing. No, we shouldnt be patient forever.
.So, did Duncan break rules?
No, because there werent any rules..
.Can we ban him now, because active people on this blog, who normally are very patient, get angry?
No, because they only represent themselves and they cannot justify the banning on rules, just on their own feelings.

Hm, i read my post again:
[start quote] Banning to me seems like oppression. It would be the easiest way for some of us [...] but it would lead to more boiling frustration. [end quote]
I didnt express me in a good way there which obviously leads to your comment:
[start quote] If you think banning is an oppressive act, you do not understand what an internet forum like this is or how it works. [end quote]
Cant blame you fro that. :) I shouldv written: "Banning Duncan now seems like oppression to me."
.Because of the lack of rules. Please some1 correct me if im mistaken, but i dont remember having to sign any "rules of easaforum" when subscribing to this forum.
.Also because looking at the apple/mac forumrules: Duncan is certainly not the only one that should be banned for repetitive abusive language. [start quote] Because this isn't grade school. People should be able to NOT insult people. And the only purpose of a post like this is to incite other people. [end quote] @ forums.macrumors.com


.What can we do then?
Rules. And the ones of this apple/mac forum could serve as a basis.. why not? EASAforumguide2005, to be agreed on and signed upon subscription...

[start quote] Johannes and Marko [...] are both sick and tired of Duncan and this. [...] they have to get involved, because they will have to carry out any decission. [end quote]
<< totally agree with this. or some1 else will have to take over this blog. Although i remember that in Belgrade INCM there werent any volunteers, no?


Whenever you want, baby.. :)
Freefrik NC.b

adam cp, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 19:23
Frederik - I'm very happy you've joined the discussion. Would you possibly help me organize an event on EASA where rules, etc, were discussed and decided? Anyone else?

Just one more thing on why I still think we should ban Duncan now - we have not had any specific rules, that is correct. But he has been given so many public warnings, that we wouldn't tolerate it anymore. His behaviour is so extreme (see his most recent post) that specific rules should not be necessary to take the decision. Imo.

Furthermore, the ONLY reason we need rules now, is Duncan, he's the only one EVER who've created posts that involved into long namecalling arguments. Correct me if I'm wrong.

love

Adam
 
duncan, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 19:31
adam i think i have resorted for the most part from name calling and have always tried to be curteous to others,
i notice others who have resorted to name calling do not get discussed

2ndly- to all of you, all this talk about a poor method of communication

wouldnt it be better if all this energy had been put into creating better architecture or letting each other know about ark initiaves from other part of the world.

as an exercise it is interesting to scroll through past stories and see how many actually are ark related.

jelkkruk, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 00:15
would you have any clue, how this energy could be spend to more useful matters? (maybe just slightly)
 
frederik, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 20:16
2Adam: Ok, lets do that. Send me your mail or MSN/ICQ/skype/whatever @ frederikdesmedt@yahoo.es.. any1 else?

2Adam2: again: no specific rules? no rules at all.. public warnings? based on what?

2Adam2anothertime: namecalling? i can rememember: "lack of intelligence" "crybaby" "stupid" "lunatic" ... just search for any bad words you know in english in the search engine, you'll hit bingo for sure..

2duncan: all this talk about rules and on how making this forum better, till the final result (ForumGuide) maybe costs us a week (with only a FEW people voluntaraly working on it), at least thats better than 2 years of passivly letting go by and doing nothing to change this forum to a better place to communicate our ideas (and ALL having to deal with nonsense being thrown on this site).. With clear rules we wont have to deal with crap like this anymore. If we wouldnt do anything about it now we could continue fighting about it for 20 more years.. THEN we can focus again FULLY on architecture, maybe THEN alex will get 40+ posts on his question about boiler plants instead of 40+ posts here..

2dunc2: think about what you write a bit longer, still.. with sth like "2ndly- to all of you, all this talk about a poor method of communication" you're not really helping the situation and yourself here..


Jointez-vous..
Fredsel NC.b

dubravka, Wednesday, 4. May 2005, 22:42
count me in. as i think if we decide on easa forum guide, forum will become better.
architecture is about communication on various levels [architect comunicate beteen idea and built object, real and imaginery, context and content] and tools for comuntication, be it drawing 3d models words or music are elusive and imho for architects is essential to learn how to comunicate. in any media. so let us work on our comunication skills
dubi
 
paradeiser, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 00:46
if i'm using the summarize option of my mac at a percentage of 1% this is the quintessence of duncas megaposting:
im involved with a lot of different things, most of which for me are architectural (many of you have different views of what constitutes architecture, for me it is many things and i spend most of my energy working in the real world for improved quality of life for people through my architectural actions, both through ark design and physical actions/ activism, i see no boundary between) Sometimes i have felt frustrated being part of different architectural groups/ institutions/ communities/ jobs as i feel that there is little or no concern for the deeper issues of what architecture is for or what it can achieve.
quit this crap. everyone.

we tried it for like 2 years now, i'm tired of it now. if there is a posting on the frontpage, not related to ease-terms - in my opinion - i will put it off the frontpage. feel free to send me complaints. i just cant stand it anymore that this blog gets clogged up by stuff we had over and over again.

mark0

adam cp, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 18:56
Well spoken Marko.
I trust your ability to judge completely and I'm sure you have 99,9 % of the community behind you in this matter :)

Adam
 
frederik, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 02:37
To avoid any misunderstandings:

Misbehaviour should not be allowed on this blog.
Banning people should be possible but based on policy.

No more, no less..
(i downloaded the summarize option of mac - percentage of 1%)

:)

Freefrik NC.b

jelkkruk, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 02:44
bravo Frederik, this seems to come in the direction we all should be able to agree on. I think it is not that hard.

policy simplified should be something as below:

- no repetitive postings
- no easa unrelated topics
- no flames
- no unfounded claims, critics, arguments, etc
- etc

those postings should be deleted, or in exceptional cases just be removed from the front page

- newbe's who don't know the rules will be warned
- recurrent offenders will be banned

If anybody feels harmed by this idea, speak now.

Or something simmilar such as on this website that Adam listed above. I really like the article about people who cause so much trouble that they are easier to just ban.

Jelk NL
 
political-opportunist, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 14:21
Duncan you used the golden section in plan - this does not constitute architecture . . . . your argument is VOID.
end.
 
sennahoj, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 14:26
mr or mrs opportunist ..
i deleted your other senseless post 7 times now
anyone interested in reading it, can email me and i will
forward it
i will also keep deleting it
 
political-opportunist, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 14:29
AND THE FLY FLEW INTO THE WEB . . . . .

AT WHAT POINT DOES CENSORSHIP EXIST . . . WORK?

HOW CAN I . . . . A NEW USER NOT POST MATERIAL WHICH IS OPEN TO PUBLIC CRITISM AND REVIEW BE THE MATERIAL RELEVANT OR NOT . . . YET CONTINUOUS WORTHLESS TRASH BE CONTINUALLY TOLERATED.

appologies -

At what point does censorship exist . . . work?

How can I . . . A new user not be allowed to post material which
is open to public critism and review, be the material relevant or not. . . . Yet continuous worthless trash be continually tolerated?

paradeiser, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 15:19
please calm down! shouting people are not tolerated. nowhere.
 
sennahoj, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 14:33
your caps lock is on

political-opportunist, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 15:10
I post a request to join in what unfortunatly the majority of this blog is activated by / about.
You 'the web-host' keep deleting it.
Maybe I am missing someones point here.

Someone is publishing material at a greater rate than Bamboo grows. The majority of this material which is being published has little or nothing to do with this-web logs manifesto " Easa is not an established organisation but a non-political and non-profit network aimed at bringing people together. The essence of the easa, since it´s beginning in Liverpool in 1981, is maintained by the 'easa spirit' - easy to feel but difficult to describe." and "Easa is a practical network for communication, meeting and exchange. Here architecture students can discuss their ideas, work together and exchange their experiences concerning architecture, education or life in general." . . . . so . . . . what are these 'political' publishings/ramblings. Oh ok they are "discuss...or life in general" . . well it seems from peoples reactions that this certainly isn't life in general.

Why then is this carrying on?

A scenario - EASA is advertising itself and pressing forwards with its clear agenda of creating an ispirational network. It meets some perfect candidates to get involved and directs them immediatly to check out www.easa.tk
They do exactly this - and what do they find . . nothing but a disalusioned group. Now I predict that if my attitude is anything to go by. As a new and interested member of a network the first thing which would turn me away is the attitude which this "Duncan" character is providing to an otherwise valuable resource!
My suggestion and attitude is not to use censorship!
(this is where i agree Adam you point that rules seem to be required only to limit one person Duncan. And Fredrick; that a policy be instated which does allow publishers a certain amount of guidance.)

It seems that Duncan's point is: well what constitutes architecture, its influential variables and products? . . . . this cannot be critised. It can be discussed and the discussions so far have concluded that the majority of his postings are opportunistic political ranting. However he no doubt feels that much of the meglomaniac architecture which could otherwise be discussed is just rant' as well.
I would suggest this solution to the problem.
Postings which are subject driven rather than requests for information require an architecural question rather than simply a bulk posting of images for publishing's sake.

Hopefully Duncan you will see my point. Your postings clearly aggrivate the majority. The majority clearly feel that your postings are questionable and hold little relevance to architecture. Surely you wish to publish items that create a discussion rather than a barrage of agressive responses. So do you think that in the future if you are going to procede with publishing on this blog that you ought to at least consider other peoples feelings and the points they are making.

I rest my case.
 
sennahoj, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 15:30
rest your case and use your other nickname, as i assume that you are a member of the easa-community already. by using a "fake" nick you will not achieve anything, as everyone posting here is usually easily identified, as we know each others, personally.
whoever posted whatever flawed ideas where going on in his/her head, did so at least with the aim to influence architects in their work.
by blatantly mocking someone elses views in a not so metaphorical way, you ( whoever you are ) are not helping at all.

after speaking to marko about this whole "episode", we came to the conclusion, that we are simply putting anything offline, that is not directly related to architecture or easa. this will not be a democratic decision, but simply the decision of two mature, grown person, who do check the blog on a regular basis. if you, the easa-community, do not approve of our actions, this will be discussed at the next easa-event!
and banning will continue not to be an option.
its only words, ffs!


end of story ( hopefully )

paradeiser, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 16:33
...off the frontpage. not (necessarily) off-line...
 
political-opportunist, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 15:55
My point has been made - -
I think you mis-read my mocking. It is merely identifying the situation if the person was not called 'Duncan' and just an opportunist. It was certainly not derogative.
Seemingly unhelpful, I am sorry, maybe I misunderstood the situation. Please do let me know why you 'censored' my posting.
I think that the 'knowing each other personally' is the real issue - again my point - look how you reacted when viewing it objectively, you simply removed the 'crap' i posted.
I agree with your point over why people post ideas - as i stated its an intrepretation of architecture. You seem to of accepted my suggestion that postings require a clear architectural question which creates positve, interesting discourse.
And finally - the paradox of complaining about what is and isn't architecture and then living by the the admission of undemocratic decision making strenghtens my case. Objectively with no personal knoweldge of me your immediate reaction to my senseless political opportunism posting was censorship. Interesting.
 
sennahoj, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 16:03
i deleted your "crap" because of the lack ot identification,
uselessness to the general situation and because i am sick and tired of this whole issue. and since i actually have a day off and found some time to read the whole thing, rather than skipping through, i had to start somewhere ..

any political opportunist would have done, it just coincided with your posting. i am currently wasting valuebale bytes on my computer with the log of your post and anyone can still read if he/she wants to.
read into my "censorship" of you post what you like
 
paradeiser, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 16:37
ok. i will close this threat now.

the end.
 
siobhan, Thursday, 5. May 2005, 20:55
i have just read through the posts on easa over the last week re. banning duncan.
firsty duncan is a friend of mine and that is why i read through all of this.


but the reason i have decided to reply is NOT to support duncan or his issues. i reply because i think there is an issue within this debate that is really important regarding accessibility, values, communication and representation all of which, i think, are signifigant to the architecture of this new medium. i think it is interesting that your reaction to duncan's input has sparked this issue and i think it is the ideal forum for the issue to be resolved - with duncan involved in the formation of that resolution.


to me it seems that the openess of easa is the most valuable thing about the society and well done to you for the time and energy it takes to maintain and contribute to that. i think that banning anybody would be counter-productive to the role of education, debate and networking. these facilities are more important than representing the interests of sponsors or particular members. but this incident demonstrates that those facilities need to be managed and adhered to in a fair way to honour the choice of everyone.

alexandra i hope you don't mind if i comment on your statement from may 1st;

[quote]Do you even realize what this means as far as a face to the public for Easa? The consequenses that it could have for the Easa in switzerland? the swiss crew and all their efforts with sponsors that take a look at our forum and wants no part of theses political standpoints? Don't make "the swiss" look like liers or hipocrites. Not to mention new easa participants who might get the wrong idea that there is a "right" and a "wrong" standpoint within easa.[endquote]

ideally (and i realise this is an idealistic statement) sponsorship and support of any kind, including participation, provides freedom to explore not conscription to a dominant agenda. choice is the most important thing on all sides here. as students that is a particular privilege that we have and we can honour that in our professionalism too.

im writing because i support the proposal to create a policy which will provide a structure to enable better communication on all sides.

i think it would be important that this policy should be developed and drawn up collaboratively on the easa site for two reasons.
1. so that all subscribers and interested parties can have some involvement.
2. because this is the medium through which this issue was provoked in the first place.

it seems to be the oppurtunity to make an important work about architecture in another kind of space

anyway thanks for the space to make a comment. good luck to all of you. *siobhån

lewis, Friday, 6. May 2005, 00:28
I do like this picture

red herring:  (noun/phrase). a thing that draws the attention away from something important.

Ban - no
Censorship - no
Rules - this is a shame, lets please keep the democracy
Maturity - yes please
Policy - same as rules
Idea - items on the front page only last a day unless people are answering to the post, this way the unhappy may ignore it and if it is a suitable point of debate and people are engerised by it and reply it stays there until there is no more activity, that way peoples involvement to it judges itself. The front page then becomes a page showing 'Active' discussions.

x x one love people . . . . one love!


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